Mindset & Action: Grow and Streamline Your Business
Mindset & Action is a business podcast aimed at helping business owners grow and streamline their businesses. It focuses on four main pillars, building an audience through different mediums including Donna's preferred method, podcasting, planning, productivity and mindset Giving you a MAP to success from entrepreneurs around the globe.
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Mindset & Action: Grow and Streamline Your Business
What If Your Fear Is Just Misdirected Energy - with Oli Cooke | EP317
Have you ever noticed how success often comes packaged with unwelcome companions like anxiety, burnout, and that persistent feeling of never being enough? In this enlightening episode, I sit down with mindset coach Oli Cook to unpack how entrepreneurs can achieve real success without these debilitating side effects.
Oli brings a unique perspective as both a skilled coach and someone who's personally battled lifelong anxiety. He shares his powerful "Rapid Root Level Shifts" method that helps dissolve the subconscious fears and inner blocks preventing entrepreneurs from scaling their businesses while maintaining their wellbeing. What makes Oli's approach so refreshing is his focus on "adjusting the inner dials" rather than pushing through with sheer willpower or hustle.
We dive deep into the problematic nature of hustle culture and how the entrepreneurial world often sets unrealistic expectations that leave business owners feeling perpetually behind. Oli offers a profound reframe: success isn't something you chase but a state of mind you can cultivate right now, even while pursuing ambitious goals. This shift alone can transform your entrepreneurial journey from one of constant striving to one of strategic growth and genuine fulfillment.
The conversation takes a practical turn as Oli shares specific techniques for managing fear (by staying "one step ahead with your mind"), tackling overwhelm (by identifying the single most important task), and celebrating wins (to break the "never enough" cycle). These aren't just theories, they're battle-tested approaches that have helped countless entrepreneurs transform their relationship with their business.
Whether you're struggling with scaling anxiety, decision paralysis, or the weight of entrepreneurial pressure, this episode offers both validation and actionable solutions. Connect with Oli at olicookecoaching.com or on Instagram @olicooke.coaching to continue your journey toward success without the side effects.
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You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast, the place to be to grow and streamline your business. I'm your host, donna Eade. Let's jump into the show. Oh, welcome back to the podcast, everybody. I'm so glad to have you here today, and I have a guest with me today. His name is Oliver Cook. Welcome to the podcast, ollie.
Oliver Cooke:Hi Donna, Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.
Donna Eade:I am excited for this conversation. Success without the side effects Sounds amazing, although I think we're going to dive into a little bit of what those side effects might be, because I think that could be different for different people. But before we dive into all of that goodness, why don't you tell my audience a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do?
Oliver Cooke:Yeah, so I'm a mindset and performance coach for driven entrepreneurs who want success without side effects ultimately. So they are looking to scale and grow their like, their business, but also their fulfillment. That's a value that they definitely have too. I'm the creator of the rapid root level shifts method, which is what I use to dissolve the subconscious fears, inner blocks, limitations to doing that. Scaling and what I mean by scaling in the context that I use with my clients is kind of, if you have perhaps full one-on-ones and you're looking to do more leveraged one-on-one offers or groups, digital products or perhaps you're a solo entrepreneur working by yourself and you're looking to expand into having a small team. Or you have a small team and you're looking to kind of grow that, but you're coming up against some kind of fears, perhaps limiting beliefs or mindset obstacles to that.
Oliver Cooke:I am a bit of a wanderer. In the last like 10 years I've lived. I lived for a number of years in Vietnam. I'm from the UK. I've also been living in Mauritius for the last couple of years, but I'm in back right now and my partner's South African. We've been together like seven years and I intend to kind of move there soon. And uh, yeah, the last thing I guess I'd say that's significant is I've had a. I'm a former lifelong anxiety sufferer, panic attack sufferer, and I really get how painful it can be when you've got, like, the external accomplishments, the external success, but it doesn't match how you feel internally. And so one of the things that I help my clients with is sort of optimising the mindset, getting those messages down to the root as well, so that they sort of feel as successful as often other people think they look.
Donna Eade:Yeah, I love that. I think that is something that a lot of us um sort of suffer with. Um, and we had a lady on the podcast a few weeks back, my friend Nicola Tonsargo, and we were talking about imposter syndrome. Um, it was one of my live sessions. That happened at my event and, yeah, that thing that you can see from the outside, oh, look at the success this person's got, yet internally they're suffering with this. Oh, my gosh, I, I'm, who am I to do this? And and who's gonna? What are people thinking when they look at me doing this and and things like that?
Donna Eade:So I think that's a big topic, um, that always comes up and it's great to sort of see that you're coming from a place of having experienced this yourself so you can really tap into what people are feeling.
Donna Eade:I think it's always the education side of coaching is really, really valuable and I highly you know I love a certificate, so I like it when people have done the work. But when you've actually had to do the work yourself and go through those steps yourself, you've got an hard to put yourself into those shoes and understand the types of feelings that people can be feeling comes to their business, when it comes to their life and things like that. So really interesting to sort of have a little glimpse into your story there. And I have to touch on your South African connection there, because my very good friend, claire Prothero, will be listening to this podcast at some point and she is my friend from South Africa. She's my accountability buddy. We've been friends for over four years now, so I would be remiss if I didn't ask what area of South Africa is your girlfriend from?
Donna Eade:yeah, she's from Cape Town oh lovely, that's where Claire is, oh amazing yeah so yeah. So when you move over, let me know and I'll put you in touch and you could go out for a one-to-one yeah, thank you very much. Yeah, I'm like to make the connections thank you yeah, it's, it's beautiful.
Donna Eade:I'm really lucky that Claire often shares with me. When she's out and about and we're having our one-to-ones, uh, she will take me to places and show me like I've seen tabletop mountain. I don't know that I'll ever get to see it in person, but I have seen it through a phone in real time. So, um, that was quite cool. Wow, um, okay. So on to the topic of the day. You're talking about success without side effects, and I think the first thing we have to do is talk about what those side effects can look like. So tell us, what kind of side effects do you mean when you're talking about doing it without them?
Oliver Cooke:Yeah. So I guess the thing to probably like preface this with is that, of course, there are many different things that are really genuinely tough when it comes to like building a business and life right, life happens and all the challenges that come there. The way I look at things is kind of as a way of thinking rather than what is true. So there are people much smarter than me who disagree about what true is. So I'm more interested in what's useful for my own thinking, for my clients, and when I'm referring to side effects, it's like the pressure, stress, overworking, overthinking, even things like guilt, anxiety, fear and the sort of never enoughness that can often be the felt experience as an entrepreneur and those.
Oliver Cooke:What I'm looking to do is basically dial down the experience of those understanding that essentially, it's not so much the actual circumstances that we're in they're going to keep presenting challenges but if not, everyone is experiencing it like me.
Oliver Cooke:So I'm experiencing it this way and that person's experiencing it that way, even though it's the same thing, they look a lot calmer or they look a lot more. You know how does that happen, and so then what I'm interested in doing is is basically adjusting the inner dials so that the experience of those things are much more different, like more strategic, clear, cal, calmer, so that that's what I'm referring to when I'm when I'm talking about side effects. It's it's it's not that all of a sudden, you don't do anything that doesn't feel amazing in your business, right, it's, it's that even doing those really edgy and challenging things and and unknown and and things that perhaps, uh, bring up a lot of fear, it's actually just getting the nervous system to a place where it's much better able to do them and often, you know, actually changing the experience entirely when it comes to how it's felt.
Donna Eade:Yeah, yeah, I think that's the thing is. It's those dials. That imagery that you just gave there of dials is really sort of impactful to me as a visual person which is so funny that I do a podcast when I'm a visual person. But you know, we move those dials. It's not about them always being to the left in the happy place, it's being able to moderate them and understand them, I think, because you know they're. We've always got to do in business things that we don't want to do. Um, until we're at a point where we can outsource them or something, there's always going to be things that we don't want to do. So many people don't want to do their taxes, you know, but it's a necessary evil of doing business, so we've got to do it. So you're going to be going into that with some fear, some trepidation, some like anxiety and things like that, but it's knowing that this is the situation, knowing why it's happening and being able to change the view a little bit so that we're not sitting in that high sort of cortisol level whilst we're doing it. So I think that's a really interesting way to look at it.
Donna Eade:We spoke just before we hit record and I was talking about that culture of hustle which just seems to be so prevalent in the entrepreneurial space that people are like, oh, you've got to hustle, you've got to hustle, you've got to hustle, you've got to hustle, you've got to hustle. And then now we seem to be seeing a bit of a turn to that sort of hustle culture. But a lot of it's coming from these huge entrepreneurs that did all that hustling. And you know, if you've been around in the entrepreneurial space for any length of time, you've likely seen it. You know, I've been around in the space for the last sort of 10 years or so. I've seen Amy Porterfield from episode 41 to episode 700 and whatever it was that she ended the online marketing made easy podcast before she changed it to her own show. I've seen the hustle that she went through. I've seen other entrepreneurs from near the beginning of their journeys and what they went through, and now they all seem to be talking about.
Donna Eade:You know, oh, you don't have to do it the way I did it. You know, I wish I'd have done this soon. I wish I'd have gone to a four day week, I wish I had hired out sooner. I wish I had done this and you can do it too, and I feel like they're not quite in the position to give us that advice, because they didn't do it that way and it's easy to say, oh yeah, I can hire out now that you've got multi-millions of pounds. Um, not everybody has that situation. So what's your kind of thoughts on, on this turn of hustle culture of the? You know the do it the easy way. Where do you kind of fall on that spectrum? What are your thoughts?
Oliver Cooke:yeah, that's so interesting and there's kind of the two ends of the kind of like the extremes and yeah, I think it's what I'm looking to do for my clients all the time is actually get accurate expectations. I think so much of what causes a lot of emotional turmoil and kind of mental is thinking, oh, things should be different to how they are, based on how long I've been doing this and how long I've been doing this and how long I've been doing that, and the expectations are kind of like haven't been adjusted and so the thinking, you know, I should be, I should be at my destination by now, because someone told me it only takes five minutes to get there, where, in actual fact, I'm kind of going in and I'm like, well, actually it takes 30 minutes, you know, so you're right on track. You know, well, actually it takes 30 minutes, you know, so you're right on track, you know, and and what that can do immediately is be like, oh, okay, so I'm not, you mean, I'm not behind. Actually that's just like having more accurate expectations. So I think definitely that there is a place for really digging in and doing the things that really move things forward and, and I also think there are sort of programs, kind of identities, if you like, that we perhaps have running at an unconscious level, that then you're sort of shifting to more of an entrepreneurial mindset.
Oliver Cooke:There were certain things that got you to do really well as an employee that don't work so well as an entrepreneur, right, and so working really long hours on something might have impressed someone or it might have know, got a lot of work done. But then if you're, if you're finding that as an entrepreneur, you you're working so hard and long hours on something that you haven't realized that what you're doing doesn't actually make sense to be doing, then it can be sort of getting in the way and that hustle is kind of like moving you forward in one direction, but without the questioning of it. Does it actually make sense to be going in this direction? Is that towards where I want to end up, or am I just moving forward for the sake of feeling like I'm taking action and being busy?
Donna Eade:Yeah, that's so true and I love that. I love that you said that people about people sort of seen as a five minute journey when actually it's a 30 minute journey, and I think that's something that has been really prevalent in a lot of the bigger entrepreneurs that sort of have the big budgets to do all the adverts and be in all the places. It's kind of the message you hear from them is buy my programme and in 10 weeks, when you finished it, you're going to have X, y, z and they're showing you all of these testimonials of people that have had, you know, 100,000 pound launches or you know they've done a 10k month in their first month out, etc. Etc. And it's like, and that's not it for everybody, and I think that it's not false advertising because those people I'm sure did do what they say they've done. But it's the exception to the rule, not the rule.
Donna Eade:In my opinion, I think, like the rule is somewhere much, much lower down in the success totem pole and we're not getting to see that. So we go into that programme thinking, great, at the end of this I'm going to do a launch and I'm going to get what these amazing entrepreneurs have got, and then, when we don't, we feel like we failed and then we might give up rather than realising, like you said, that we were told it was going to be a five-minute journey and actually no, no, for most people it's a 30 minute journey because you've got to take a few wrong turns before you get to the destination right, right, yeah, absolutely yeah.
Oliver Cooke:And I think often with that. Then what I notice, uh, you know my own mind doing at times and with my clients, it's like cherry picking certain things. It's like, well, I haven't got that bit and I haven't got that bit. And what I say to that, which is usually useful, is because I think often the the comparison thing happens and then what I realize is it's just taking one aspect and cherry picking that and being like, oh, but I don't have that bit that they've got. I really want that. And it's almost like fixating on that, like the launch where they made this much money or whatever, or they did it in this way.
Oliver Cooke:And I do a kind of thought experiment. So I'm like you know, you can't cherry pick one thing, because it you know, if you were to have that, you would have to trade off all of the other experiences. So in order to have that particular launch that they had, you would also have to have their entire uh business. You know their family, their uh life experiences, their memories, and you would trade off yours. So you'd lose all of your life experiences. You lose all of your memories, all of your family, um, your business. Do you still want it. You know, and I think sort of presenting it in that way it makes it much harder to compare and much easier to see. Ah, okay, so I can't just cherry pick one bit, I have to have all or nothing. I think I choose nothing and I'll just keep going on my own particular path oh, that's, that's a really good visual actually.
Donna Eade:Yeah, that, that's so true. Wow, that's a powerful one. Oh my goodness, yeah, that that's.
Donna Eade:That's highlighted some things for me, for sure might be journaling on that a little bit later. Um so, can we truly be successful without being on the brink of burnout, sort of every six months? I feel like a lot of people talk about burnout and I actually listened to something yesterday where they they asked the person what, what is your opinion on burnout? And she said burnout isn't failure. It's your body telling you that you need to readjust your priorities, which I really liked that kind of analogy of it, like it's not failure. It's your body telling you you need to reevaluate your priorities. And I think I can see the truth in that.
Donna Eade:And a lot of entrepreneurs go and go and go and they're trying to be successful, and they do it to the detriment of their health, they do it to the detriment of their nutrition, they do it to the detriment of their family time and they keep going, keep going until something gives and they have to stop. And then they feel like they're failure and then they're like, oh, I can't do this. And they go through that whole conversation of like why am I doing? I should just go and get a job, this isn't working, blah, blah, blah. And then something will happen that makes them think, you know, they'll remember that they're completely unemployable and nobody's going to hire them. So, like no, I've got to make this work. And they get back on the train and they start again.
Oliver Cooke:So is there a way that we can kind of maybe lessen that, so that it's not not getting to that full burnout stage where we're at the point of collapse but we're actually sort of, um, it's. It's a very topical thing, you know, it's something that comes up a lot, and one thing that tends to happen is without even really being consciously aware of it, outside of conscious awareness, usually, once a particular thing has been achieved, the goalposts move, the horizon moves, but before you know they've even realized, and so it's kind of like well, um, that wasn't even registered as as like the end point or that. You know there was no stopping there, it just continued, continued, continued. So I think one of the things that can make a big difference is is and it might seem seem like little, but actually it's quite significant in terms of what it can cause for for for your experience is how you actually define success. And if I think about how I would have defined success, like five years ago, or how, how, um, I think it's very common to define success it's like well, you know, I want to have a lot of money making a big impact, really doing good in the world, and they're all kind of quite external things and what they sort of place it out there. They place it out there, so there's kind of like, you know, this gap that needs to be filled, this chasing that happens and you see it everywhere, right, so it's so normal.
Oliver Cooke:I like to, I like to sort of flip things around a bit so that actually success and fulfillment is something that I believe you can be 100% in right now and also more ambitious than you've ever been. So I think of it as high performance and high fulfillment and adjusting the way you see success. I would define it personally and it's just my personal frame, is a state of mind, and I know, maybe that sounds a little bit corny, but if you think about it, there are people who are incredibly successful, have achieved, ticked every single box that you can think of, and we'd ask them do you feel successful? And it's like not yet right, it's right, it's like okay, um, so what is success then, if that's not it? Because I was thinking that was it, and so I think I like to ask the kind of harder questions and and really I I see it as like, if you, if you can basically cultivate a way of thinking that you are successful now, today.
Oliver Cooke:Why wouldn't you do that? Like, is there actually a downside to that? And some people might say, well, yeah, I need that hunger to keep going right. If I don't, if I never feel satisfied, then I know I'll keep going right. But I actually I just don't agree with that.
Oliver Cooke:I think when you're feeling satisfied and fulfilled, plus you have big goals and ambitions, I think they work really well together. And when you feel satisfied by something, it makes you want to do it again. And so I think at the beginning of the day, you can even start to be sort of looking for how am I already being successful today? You know what lets me know that I've got this. You know I've got this lunch with a. You know with a friend at this time, I've got this meeting with these clients. You know this time, and you can start training your mind to actually look for the ways in which you're already being successful.
Oliver Cooke:And, of course, you know there's still plenty of room for and I also would like to really achieve that thing and that thing, but it's. But today, how am I already being successful? Because that also helps to integrate the previous wins you've had and the previous milestones you've hit that often get ignored, right, and, and I think when those get ignored they don't get integrated and therefore that that sort of again feeds that kind of cycle of like never enough, because if it's never acknowledged, if it's never like, made high definition until you see look what you just achieved, right, then why would it, why would the future examples and achievements be any different? So, yeah, I think that's changing that like definition and how you actually see success, I think can already help to reshuffle those priorities, because then it's like well, no, this is why I'm not going to be doing this today, you know, because that really doesn't fit in with how I see success. Now, yeah, and yeah, that's how I would have answered that.
Donna Eade:I really love that and I've got a couple of like images that came to me while you were talking there and that was like the satisfaction and wanting more of that. That always happens when I have a bar of chocolate. I've never had a bar of chocolate and gone. You know what that sounds good. I never need another bar of chocolate in my life, so you know there's a good analogy for you.
Donna Eade:Yeah, it also made me think of something that my friend Claire actually is always talking about celebrating the small wins, and one of the things I did recently was I hosted an event at the beginning of April to celebrate five years of this podcast, and it's because I never celebrate the wins, it's just not something that I've done.
Donna Eade:But what I've just realised as you were talking was, yes, I celebrated that win, but I did it with something that meant I had to do more and I was in charge of this event. I organised it all. I did all of the work for it and I couldn't be fully present with my guests on the day because I was the person who's organised, so I knew where everything was. I needed to go here, there and everywhere, and I was the person who's organised, so I knew where everything was. I needed to go here, there and everywhere, and I was kind of the key player at the front through the whole event. So I didn't get to be as present as I would have liked that you would have maybe have had if it was a party. I've been describing it to people as I was the bride and the wedding planner on the day.
Donna Eade:So everybody wanted to talk to me because it was my event but I didn't have time to because I was organising it all and had to move around. So I kind of did myself a little bit of a disservice there in that respect of not being able to really sit in it and enjoy it and take that win, but also the process of organising an event. Now my event financially made a loss and I'm going to do an episode or I might have done an episode by the time this one comes out on sort of creating an in-person event and what that actually looks like financially and the benefits, pros and cons and things, because I think it's interesting. I don't think a lot of people talk about it, so I'm going to use myself as an example. But it a loss and that was kind of.
Donna Eade:I had the two focuses. I had the focus of there was some really good conversations that happened in that room and I know that people got value out of it and people have told me that they really enjoyed it and they really found it the room, a really nice room to be in with the people that were there. So I know that there was a positive. But on the other side of it. I lost money, and so I have those two things. So I can't even take the win of the fact that the room was really good and that people really enjoyed it and that everybody had a good time and I enjoyed it and that the afternoon tea was amazing, because there's this other thing where I feel like I failed because it didn't turn a profit and it's like you can't even take the small wins because there's something to knock, knock you down. So it's like I haven't really celebrated the fact that.
Donna Eade:My god, I did that. I sort of sat there and I organized it all. And you know, it doesn't matter that it made a loss, because I learned so much doing it. Not that I'm ever planning on doing another in-person event again. I did say it was a one-off and I plan it to be a one-off, but I learned so much about me through doing that. So there is wins to be taken, even when it looks like on paper that it was a loss. There are wins to be taken and I think we often miss that because we are so focused on the external successes, like you said, and focusing on out there and comparing ourselves and looking at what other people are doing and going well. I didn't do it as well as X so I failed and not taking that so really interesting and I found that fascinating.
Oliver Cooke:Thank you so much yeah, no, and and actually that you know that example I think it's really, you know, I think a lot of people obviously will resonate so much with that, where they've kind of tried to celebrate and and kind of celebrate those but something that perhaps didn't work out so well took the, took the mental space, and I think that's that that does make sense, because it's kind of, as you've been running your business for so long, that's kind of where the focus has been the priority lens and so, yeah, I like you know, I like how you said it was actually, you know, I like you know, I like how you said it was actually, you know, taking the time to do it.
Oliver Cooke:That really in itself is the celebration. As you look back, it didn't necessarily need to feel that good in order for it to be a really big win, because it was something that previously hadn't come so naturally. And I think by doing it don't necessarily expect it to feel good, especially the first few times, right when people start, especially if you know it's like with any other habit, you know, with habits of thinking and habits of feeling, the mind will go down a particular neural pathway that's well trodden, like you know, that pathway in the forest, and so as soon as you start trying to go down a different one, for a little while, it's likely to to default to the main one.
Oliver Cooke:um plus we, you know, we, we have this bias towards negativity which is just like uh, uh, kept our ancestors alive, so it's yeah you know, it's not a massive surprise when the mind is, like you know, looking to the thing that, uh, it's associating with keeping us alive yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Donna Eade:So I would love it if you could give us three sort of and I feel like we've had quite a quite a lot that we could take away already in today's episode but three things that we could implement that could help us reduce or get rid of these side effects that we don't want to be experiencing yeah, and I think it does sort of really depend on what the side effect is.
Oliver Cooke:But for I'll just give like a couple of examples with different ones and and yeah, hopefully that will be useful if somebody's got that particular like quote-unquote side effect. So I think, so fear is one of the big things that I'm supporting adjusting the darts for with my clients most often, and so if there's perhaps like a fear about the next thing that you're doing in your business and it's got to a point where essentially, the side effect is that you really want to do it, you have the strategy and you know how to perhaps like launch this thing or promote this thing, but for some reason you've been avoiding and likely it's not all areas, it's just this one like particular thing that keeps getting moved from to do list to to do list yeah, then what happens? There is like the more it gets avoided, the more the unconscious mind learns that this thing is actually dangerous. And so if you think about, like a Formula One driver who is, let's say, just on a practice day they're just getting in the car and driving around they're probably not feeling much fear, even though it's objectively a pretty dangerous thing that they're doing, driving at like 200 miles an hour around dangerous corners. But because they've moved towards that and they've gone out of their way to do that so often, they've taught their unconscious mind this thing is not dangerous even though it is. So it doesn't really matter if it is or it's not. And the same goes when somebody is avoiding getting in a car. Again and again and again they've taught their mind this thing is dangerous.
Oliver Cooke:And so then anytime it's even perhaps even thought about or referenced by someone, the nervous system will start to to detect um right, the perceived threats, start to go into a fear response. And so what you can do is kind of almost move like one step ahead with your mind, so seeing yourself first actually doing perhaps the next step to whatever this task is, and so stay ahead in your mind, and then the actual real action you do can be kind of like one or two steps behind that. And so you just start moving forwards and you start showing your mind this thing isn't deadly, because ultimately that's what unconscious mind cares about. It's like if it's causing fear, it's because it thinks it's life-threatening. And so by moving towards it you teach your unconscious mind this thing is safe, and particularly if you go out of your way to move towards it. Your mind doesn't learn that something is safe if there's a payoff to the risk. So what I mean by that is like if our ancestors saw this bees nest in the tree and they knew there was honey there, but there was a saber-toothed tiger that they knew might be hanging around, it might still be worth the risk to go get the honey, but if there was no honey and a saber-toothed tiger, they wouldn't just go walk through that area because obviously that's, that's something that's dangerous, um, and so, you know, we can sometimes move through something, but even though it's really scary, but the mind still doesn't learn that this thing is safe because there was a payoff that we'd seen. So that can be something, um, to note. Uh, yeah, so that, yeah, that's that's what I guess I'd say, for, like, one particular area of fear can be useful to start doing. Sometimes it's a bit too much to even do personally, but that certainly can be a really useful thing.
Oliver Cooke:Something around overwhelm, um, which is another thing I think shows up for a lot. Often I have my clients, you know, coming to me and they're like yeah, I feel really overwhelmed. I've got this, this, this, this, this, this, literally, this morning on a coaching call, it was like seven different things. It's like, ok, yeah, it makes sense why you've been feeling that way. And what's going on there is. It's basically like consciously he was aware of all seven things, but unconsciously there, like consciously he was aware of all seven things, but unconscious mind there was like an error code, and so it was like don't know how to move forward.
Oliver Cooke:It's kind of like trying to sit down at this giant table of food and going eat it in the first bite and and mind just goes what you know how, um, and so making things specific, actionable for the mind and and possible also is helpful, right, is the way to kind of move through that. Often I'll ask my clients you know, if one thing like sort of bubbled up to the surface, like a cork in water, you know what would be at the top of this list of like priorities as you can see it now, and often something will have a slight edge and then it's like, okay, so let's start there, you know. And and then making it like really specific, because then the mind knows what to do, that it's like okay. So I take one bite and I put the bite you know in my mouth and then I eat that and then I have another bite and then eventually I can get through the whole table of food, if that makes sense.
Donna Eade:Yeah, it does. It's that analogy, isn't it the? How do you eat an elephant one?
Oliver Cooke:bite at a time.
Donna Eade:So it's literally that and I think it's a good reminder for everybody, because it is one of those things like we feel like everything. And I've literally had this today I was talking to a colleague of mine and we were sort of saying how much we've got to do and there just isn't enough time to do it, and like practical time to do something when we've got meetings coming up that are taking whole days out of our work time and we've got an event coming up. That's the deadline that these other things have got to be done and it's like, well, there's physically not the time to do that, plus do everything that we normally do on a day-to-day basis to get ready for this event. What do we do? And that overwhelm was right there. And so what did I do today?
Donna Eade:I did something that was for that event and pushed something else that was part of my normal day because technically I could break that up and not have to do it. You know it's not ideal, but if it comes to it, something can be pushed. So it's finding those priorities and putting them in place and going okay. So I don't have to think about all of the rest of this list right now. There's seven things. Don't have to think about all of the rest of this list. Right now there's seven things. Don't need to think about six of those. Let's just focus on that one thing and take that first step or have that first bite. So I really like that reminder for us.
Oliver Cooke:And sometimes we're just too close to it, right, yeah, you know it's just. And sometimes as well, it's like we have this sense of well, this, there's no way I can't do this thing. And then if somebody's kind of challenges you on it a little bit, it's like really you can't. There's nothing like it's that, or you know this whole thing has to fall down. It's like, ok, actually maybe I could adjust that or maybe, you know, so it's not always like sometimes taking things too literally. So it's not always like sometimes taking things too literally, like, and if it's too rigid, I think that's usually something to kind of question a little bit. You know, is there, is there some thing that could be moved or reshuffled so that other things can fall into place? But yeah, I do think that often there's like there are lots of things that can get done and make sense to get done, lots of things that can get done and make sense to get done. And so, yeah, like you say, it's kind of like shuffling the priorities, which is a skill in itself.
Donna Eade:Absolutely. It's absolutely, oh dear Right. Ok, so that was a fantastic conversation. Tell people where they can find out more about you and what it is that you do where they can find out more about you and what it is that you do.
Oliver Cooke:Yeah, so you can find me on my website, which is ollie o-l-i cook with an e at the end coachingcom, or via my instagram, which is ollie cook dot coaching, and what I do is I take more kind of like responsibility actually for being the one that adjusts the dials in our sessions with my clients and causing those shifts to kind of click and make sense to the deeper levels of the mind, so that when change happens it kind of feels natural, it's like, rather than getting trying to cut your own hair. I work with people who are like no, I want someone else to cut my hair, and so it's. It's more like that. I see it that way and typically those are the fears in a kind of like sabotage, that often my clients know what to do, they know the strategy, they're not new to that and they're like yeah, I know what to do For some reason with this thing, I just haven't been doing it and I think there's some fear there. It feels like a little bit too big to handle.
Oliver Cooke:People don't usually use this word for my clients, but what I how I usually frame it to them is this conflict? And so it might be either to do with the way to the goal or, you know, the process. Some, some part about the process doesn't feel safe, or some part about of actually actually obtaining the goal, achieving that doesn't feel safe. And so it's kind of looking at that and often it would be like, yeah, logically I'm fine with it, yeah, I'm totally happy, good to go. And then it's sort of like, would that be totally okay?
Oliver Cooke:You know, like, does it get green lights all the way down? It's like actually actually, no, not so much. This is why, you know, I'd feel really guilty if this happened, you know, if I had that. So what I do is I get agreement from all levels of the mind so that logically they're good with it, unconscious mind is good with it, and then when change happens like that, it can happen very quickly. Often clients will come to me, you know, at the beginning of the session they feel this way. At the end of the session they feel this way. At the end of the session they feel very different um sometimes it can take a couple of sessions.
Oliver Cooke:Yeah, with fears, anxieties, guilt um overwhelm, and so I have my process. Yeah, yeah so I have my unstoppable six-month journey experience, which is kind of for each level of scaling, where we do that and we kind of remove the obstacles so they're back to basically the default which for for most of the people I meet with high achievers is like movement, action, you know yeah fabulous thank you fabulous well, I will have all of those linked, all of those avenues linked down below for you guys, so do check out the show notes or the blog post to connect with Ollie.
Donna Eade:We're now going to move into the section of the podcast which is more of a quickfire round, so we don't have to go too deep, although the first one I do like to go a little bit deep, but the rest of them will be quick fire. So the first question is what is the biggest mindset block that you've had to overcome in your business so far, which I always love to ask to mindset people because it's always a really interesting answer been so many, but I would say so, yes, between two but, but one of them.
Oliver Cooke:I was working as a teacher previously, uh, when I was living in Vietnam, and what I didn't realize when I started my business was there was like this uh kind of identity, these beliefs that I had from having done that work, that uh were then there affecting my business, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, with, like, the employee mindset. I think, yeah, that was a really big aha moment for me realizing oh, you know, I'm defaulting to like working all the time and not resting at all. I'm I'm seeing rest as this thing that, like, I have to earn it, like I did when I was doing that I'm trying to give everything for free so that this is not sustainable, um, and and trying to get everything perfect. I'm not trying to give everything for free so that this is not sustainable, and trying to get everything perfect, I'm not trying to. You know, like when I was a teacher, trying not to make any mistakes.
Oliver Cooke:I'm now bringing that into this business where, actually, like, mistakes, failures, are the thing that propel me forward. You know, they're the most useful thing, and so it really. It was like like wow, this is like a 180 in thinking and and another thing around, like messaging, was with that kind of teacher employee mindset running. It was like, well, don't leave anyone behind in the class. You know the weakest student, make sure that they catch up. And and then, when it comes to like my messaging, it's like well, make sure I speak to everyone, make sure no one feels left out. It's like well, then, you're then kind of speaking to no one, right?
Donna Eade:yeah, yeah and um.
Oliver Cooke:So that was also a humbling realization, as well as thinking that I was like good at writing because that was things that I'd like studied. And then I was like, oh, copyright, yeah, not so much. Uh, I think I've got a lot of work to do there because, you know, I'm not getting the results from my copywriting. So obviously I've got some stuff to learn. And that was kind of like a hard pill to swallow because I thought I was good at it yeah, yeah, that is an issue.
Donna Eade:I did creative writing at university and it's just like, yeah, I'm all right writing, but yeah, copywriting something, it's a completely different beast. So, yeah, I feel you on that one Moving into our quickfire round. What is the planning tip that you would give to people that helps you with your planning?
Oliver Cooke:So when it comes to I guess I'll give the example of like planning my week, my days, planning my days, let's say I'm'm always looking to and this comes back to the satisfaction thing that I mentioned earlier I'm looking to hit the target with what I get done each day and so only putting things on the to-do list that I, you know, I know I can get done. I don't always achieve this, but essentially it's like hit the target because because I think what that does, when you, when you would, when you actually achieve everything, then you're like oh, that felt really good, I want to do that again tomorrow. But when it's like I've achieved like two out of 15, then it kind of can feel def, deflating you know yeah and and so it's a initially setting up that way, but also adjusting it, adjusting expectations.
Oliver Cooke:Throughout the day it's like like, oh, this big thing happened. Now let me adjust, let me adjust, because otherwise, what I found is, when I get to the end of the day, I'm then I have the same expectations that I had at the beginning of the day and I'm evaluating it through that lens and I'm thinking, well, I didn't get enough done. It's like well, but how is you know? How is that OK ultimately?
Donna Eade:Mm. Hmm, that's such a good one because that's exactly what happened to me this morning, actually is that I was working on something. I had planned that I was going to edit a couple of podcasts and from nine until one, I had a call with somebody. This issue of you know, things needing to be done by this deadline came up, so I had to do something for that. I had to update a website link. I had to create a social media post. That needed to get done. I got locked out of LinkedIn. Oh, my goodness, like.
Donna Eade:It turned around and said you've been using third party browser extensions that we don't like, and I'm like what? I'm not using anything. So I had all this go on and I got to one o'clock, which is obviously an hour before we're sitting down speaking, and I was like I haven't edited one podcast. What on earth? What have I been doing for the last four hours? It was absolutely insane. And then I wrote it all down and I was like oh, oh, okay, that equates. That makes sense, you know, because I was like there are days when I sit here and I twiddle my thumbs and I really should be working and I'm scrolling on my phone and I'm whatsapping the family. And you know, it's just one of those days where where nothing really gets done and I know it, at the end of the day, I'm like, yeah, I spent a lot of time procrastinating today, but today I was like I I've been doing, I've like not looked at my phone, this is weird.
Oliver Cooke:And then, and then I wrote it down, I was like, oh okay, yeah, that that's, that makes sense yeah, I don't think that's that that's like such a good sort of practice to get into you and just noticing like, uh, that's why, because so often I think it just goes unacknowledged and then it becomes this thing that's just sort of like almost like festers in the mind. It's like it's like yeah, exactly, and um, yeah, that that can then be a very unpleasant experience. So, and also energy then going, you know mental energy then going to thinking, oh well, I should have done this and I should have done that and and that's also tiring it's pulling kind of like resources away from what's possible to do now and or even like rest and doing things in the evening perhaps that support the like longevity of working in your business yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing, amazing.
Donna Eade:So, moving on to productivity, is there something that you do to help you in the day to stay on task? Is there anything that you can give to the audience that might give them a? Give them a. Oh, I've not tried that before.
Oliver Cooke:What do I do? I think one thing that I really like to do I don't think this is a particularly like new thing for most people, but I'll just like listen to like brown noise, which really helps me, just like focus in on what I'm doing, and, yeah, I don't know why that really helps me.
Donna Eade:OK, so for people who don't know, because I've heard of white noise what's brown noise?
Oliver Cooke:Oh yeah, oh, if you haven't listened to the two, they're like they're a little bit different. Brown noise is kind of deeper. It's got like a deeper sound to it. I just find it a little bit clears away some of the mind stuff and just like keeps me really like focused on what I'm doing. And I'll I'll usually where, where it makes sense, I'll kind of block my time into, like you know, doing the same type of tasks.
Oliver Cooke:Yeah, because I think you know the whole like switching between tasks can be really time consuming, as you kind of then get distracted and then go back to that and yeah. So those couple of things, as well as just reclarifying what are those things that really make sense today, like what do I want to get done? And yeah, I've definitely been on a whole journey with this over over my business and, seeing it from like the perspective of strategically, what are those things that make most sense to get done, rather than just like what's going to feel like I'm taking the most action, like rowing the hardest, it's like no, no, but actually, you know, and often what I found, unfortunately, is those things are the scariest things a lot of the time, and so it's it's also asking you know what am I doing today? That's actually like scary.
Donna Eade:Yeah, yeah, that does make sense. That does make sense. So what is the thing that you are doing at the moment that is working in terms of building your audience? I think that's something people are struggling with right now. I think people have turned around and said to me I've heard it a lot at the moment that Instagram isn't performing the way it was and people don't really know why they're not getting the engagement they once got. You know, facebook's all noisy, blah, blah, blah blah. So there's lots of things that go on that sort of knock us off our feet when it comes to building our audience. But what's one of the things that you're seeing success with when it comes to building your audience?
Oliver Cooke:so I don't know like what sort of stage somebody is at you know, I'm sure all sorts of stages when they're listening, um. And but one thing that I found guest training in in people's kind of like programs I found is like a really useful way to actually get in front of it when it's a complimentary thing to what you're offering as well. I think it can be a really mutually beneficial way to reach people who are like at that stage where they're kind of like ready for that type of work. And yeah, I've done I've done kind of a number of those in the last few months and I found that like the type of people who find me are actually like really, you know, they're sort of really ready for this type of work. They're like, yeah, like you know what you're doing, really, uh, resonated with me.
Donna Eade:You know this is where I'm at, and so I think that would probably be like my sort of number one, I think yeah um, yeah, that's a really good one, because I think, uh, I've just been doing some uh work recently on account-based marketing and, for those of you who aren't aware of what that is, it's basically looking for the clients that you want to work with and gearing all of your marketing towards just them literally just them. So it's more used in sort of corporate. So if I wanted Coca-Cola to be my client, all of my marketing would be focused on how do I get Coca-Cola to buy my thing? So what is Coca-Cola's priorities? What do they want to see from the products that I'm selling? What are they going to want to know about it? What? What is going to? What are they doing in their business at the moment that I can help with that?
Donna Eade:This product will help them with and focusing it on that, and it's a lot more work, I think, in terms of the thinking around it, because you're so, so hyper-niched into it.
Donna Eade:However, the reward for a big client like that on your books versus, you know, a smattering of little people, would be a huge win for you. So I think, in the same way, doing this, like creating a training or something, is a lot more hard work than it is to put a social media post out. However, you're going into a complimentary group, like you said. I mean, the audience has to make sense of people that are much more likely to buy from you than random strangers on the internet that are going to find your Instagram account, so therefore, it's more work. However, the reward is likely to be higher because of the type of people that you're reaching in there, and I think that's something that we often overlook. We see is, oh, that's going to be too much work, but if the audience is right, it can have a much better return on your investment right, really good, yeah, and it's.
Oliver Cooke:It's also. It's also leveraged as well in ways that perhaps sometimes the social media posts you just post it once and never repurpose it or something. Yeah, it's, if you, if you make a training that would also work in other people's, you know it can also be leveraged in that sense you make it and then maybe you know you still have to deliver it, but at least you've kind of mapped it out. You've got some kind of like core um things that you're teaching that you can use again yeah, absolutely fantastic.
Donna Eade:Right now we move on to my very, very quick fire round, because we I know that we are running over time it's been a really good conversation, so what is the? Podcast that you're loving right now yeah, this, this one's actually like.
Oliver Cooke:I'm like oh, this is such a generic answer, but actually it's diary of a ceo, a lot of people say it and I think it's the one that gets people into podcasting, so I'm not bad about it yeah, yeah, of course I've listened to.
Oliver Cooke:You know various different ones. It's just they've been particularly, they've been like some kind of episodes around fear. I really find anything on the topic of fear interesting. Because of my personal journey with like anxiety and what I support my clients with, I'm always looking to be like, oh so how did they overcome this and, from what I understand, why did that work, you know, and so I'm drawn to that sort of stuff, so I find it really fascinating.
Donna Eade:Yeah.
Oliver Cooke:What's the book that's made the biggest impact on your life so far? I think it would be 4,000 Weeks by Oliver.
Donna Eade:Berkman, I don't know if you've read that, no.
Oliver Cooke:I've not heard that one. It's really flips some things on its head when it comes to like.
Donna Eade:Oh, is that like how long most people live? Yeah, yeah.
Oliver Cooke:So it's quite, it's pretty confronting, yeah to to hear it that way. But it's also the way that he uh sort of puts that to your advantage and the way that he frames it and the way that he gets you to kind of see that as actually as such a benefit is very different to what I think most people would guess before reading it. And so you know he's essentially saying things like you'll, you'll miss out on right, be okay with that. You know, what are the choices that give you meaning? Like, what are those choices? What are those things you're doing with your life that actually do give meaning? What matters? You know, focus on that, because you will miss out on many things, you know. And yeah, I just think it's a really interesting book.
Donna Eade:Yeah, fabulous. We'll have that linked on my bookshelf, guys if you want to go and check it out? Um, and then what's your go-to snack when you're in a hurry?
Oliver Cooke:uh, so I'm I'm kind of weird when it comes to like snacks. I really like fruit, so apples I probably apple, but I also like dark chocolate like 90. So those two snacks and actually anything salt and vinegar flavoured is pretty good for me.
Donna Eade:Yeah, okay. And what is your ultimate me time thing to do?
Oliver Cooke:Long walks, yeah, just walks, where I either listen to podcasts, listen to audio books or just nothing and just kind of, like you know, more mindful walks. That's what I really like to do for myself.
Donna Eade:Love that, love that. Well. Thank you so much for your time today, ollie. It's been a fantastic conversation. I hope you've enjoyed it. Guys, don't forget to go and connect with Ollie on his website and on his Instagram, and we will see you in another episode real soon. Bye for now.
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